I couldn’t believe it. Usually my four year old daughter, Charis, was compliant and obedient. But here she was refusing to apologize for something mean she did to an adult friend of ours. “Charis, if you don’t apologize I’m going to have to spank you.”
That usually worked, especially for something as simple as asking for an “I’m sorry”.
But not this time. She silently stood her ground.
I had promised her a spanking and as much as I hated to have to keep my word I knew it was important I do so. I gave her a few gentle swats of the bottom.
She gave a few obligatory whimpers – since these were far too gentle to really hurt.
But she continued to stand her ground – absolutely refusing to apologize.
“Charis, if you don’t apologize, I’m going to have to spank you again. And this time it’s going to be real hard. I don’t want to do that and you don’t want that so you need to go and apologize for being mean.”
She remained unmoved.
Again, I had to keep my word – so I gave a few hard swats on her bottom that would certainly get her attention. This time there were real tears but no change. She absolutely refused to even make a half-hearted attempt at an apology.
This was the first time with Charis that Jana and I had seen open rebellion raise its ugly head. We needed to win this confrontation but at what cost? A hundred thoughts and questions were rushing through me head.
She was just a little girl. I didn’t want to spank her – especially since it seemed so ineffective. If this kept up, at what point would my “discipline” turn into abuse? But I felt like we couldn’t afford to lose this battle. She was openly defiant and when rebellion wins a battle of the wills it’s strengthened, more resilient and more determined to win future conflicts.
I didn’t know what to do but I was committed to principles I had seen in Scripture. Spanking is a God-endorsed form of discipline, especially for cases of rebellion.
Spanking, is something we do for our children not to our children. It’s an act of sacrificial love – I force myself to do what is best for my child even though I don’t want to do it.
Spanking is God’s answer to keeping our children from being enslaved to the foolishness that is bound up in their hearts.
Rebellion is no trivial matter – even in the heart of a four year old. I had no choice but to follow the principles and leave the outcome to the Lord. But first, one last appeal.
Outside I calmly said, “Charis, if you do not apologize I am going to have to spank you again really, really hard.” Inside my heart was screaming, “Please apologize – at least make an effort – so I don’t have to do this!”
As I spanked her a third time I felt like an abusive dad. Was this over the top? Would she have bruises? What am I going to do if she still refuses to obey? After several painful swats I stood her up and asked her again to go and apologize.
With hot tears streaming down her cheeks she walked over to our friend and softly said, “I’m sorry”. What happened next totally shocked me.
She bolted back toward me, jumped up in my lap, threw her arms around my neck and hugged me tightly. I was amazed. It really worked.
I believed Biblically that children somehow knew discipline was a sign of love but here I was seeing it in action. Instead of running to her mom for comfort like she usually did, she ran back into the very arms that had just spanked her so hard. We embraced, now with tears running down both our cheeks. And I assured her of my love for her.
But what do you do if even spanking doesn’t work? I prepared a little ePaper with some ideas that I’m going to send as a “thanks” to all subscribers to this blog. Sign up – middle right hand column of this website – and I’ll send it to you, too.
Parenting can be tough. But you have to decide at which end you want it to be tough. You can make it ‘easy’ on yourself when they’re young, ignore their misbehavior and refuse to deal with it. By doing that you put off the pain until they’re older when you’ll be forced to suffer the consequences of rebellious teens and young adults.
Or you can choose the hard way now and enjoy life with your teens and adult children. Often what appears to be the easy way now turns out to be the hard way in the long run.
Don’t fail to discipline your children. They won’t die if you spank them. Physical discipline may well save them from death. – Proverbs 23:13, 14 (NLT)
60 Comments
Your daughter isn‘t hugging you because she thinks you love her. She is hugging you to appease you to get you to stop hurting her in the future, and because you have done a horribly unloving thing to her entirely in your own self-interest, you have put the fear in her head that she is without a person to love and protect her in this world. What the little girl never learns is that this makes her father think the beatings are okay, when what the girl is trying to do is make the beatings STOP. It never, ever works. It never worked with my father. The worse he beat me, the more I tried to get him to love me again because I knew he couldn‘t humiliate and hurt me like that and actually love me, even though I needed him to love me for my very survival.
I hate my father. I always have. I would have been beaten if I told him that, but I always held onto this feeling. I don‘t even have the perverse comfort of believing in a god that damns people to hell to make me think that there will be any justice for me. I learned to lie. I learned to say I was sorry when I wasn‘t sorry. In fact, before I became god-free, I couldn‘t forgive anyone, because I was conditioned to believe that saying sorry was just a formality that someone offers to keep from being punished and that no one really meant it.
But congratulations for coercing your daughter into lying to you. May your god be pleased.
Hi Molly –
I really appreciate the vulnerability and openness in your comments. And I’m so very sorry for the abuse you obviously endured as a child. I’m also very sorry for the perspective it has given you on God. I know there is no way I can convince you otherwise but let me just assure you that the god you speak of is a man-made monster, not the real God who revealed Himself when He came to earth to suffer at the hands of evil people who beat him – much worse than you or I have endured – to pay the price for my sins and yours. Jesus Himself said he did not come to condemn (john 3:17). He does not damn people to hell. He is the one who came to rescue folks already going there. In fact, the Bible clearly says hell was not created for people. They have no business being there.
Again, I realize there is no way I’m going to convince you in a short little piece like this but maybe I can at least let you know my daughter, who is now in her 30s is very close to me, loves me, and hardly even remembers this situation that so traumatized me. I obviously did not do a good job of conveying what was happening or you would have understood it was totally different than what you must have endured.
Along that line, I am about to release an ebook entitled – 5 Times You Should Not Spank Your Child. If you are interested in understanding more about the difference between beating a child and proper, loving spanking, would you let me send you a free copy? No need to write back. If you would like to see it – and I would value your comments on it too – just sign up to get my blog because when it is released I am going to send all subscribers a free copy. You can then immediately unsubscribe if you like. And I don’t make any money off this so there is no commercial motive in this. I just think many of the illustrations in the book might help you understand the heart of God and how a parent can spank while truly loving their child.
Hey, it doesn’t cost you anything so why not give it a shot. 🙂
Again, thank you so much for taking the time to share your feelings and feel free to write back if you would like to talk about it more.
I agree with Molly. You can get anyone to do anything if you beat them enough. You hurt the most vulnerable. Of course your daughter won’t want to remember. Would you want to recall getting assaulted? If this is the way of your God, I’d reconsider.
Hi Linda:
I have to say, one of the “wonderful” things about social media is that you don’t have to have an informed opinion to be able to liberally inform others of your opinion. Case in point. I am amazed how you have never met me, nor my daughter yet you understand her and my motives better than we do ourselves. Your insight is astounding. (Sorry, I don’t mean to be sarcastic. OK, perhaps I do.)
The point is that you are making assumptions about people you have never met based upon your own very limited experiences and world view. We call that prejudice. We call a person who does that a bigot.
I know you don’t intend to be that way. It’s just natural to assume that our opinion (on everything) is correct. Could it be you’re wrong? Is that within the realm of possibility? Could it be that I and my daughter have more insight into what happened and the outcome of the event than you do? Could it be that your use of the inflammatory word “beating” demonstrates that you have no idea what a Biblical “spanking” is?
I hope you will get my small book “Five Times You Should Not Spank Your Children”, read it and then, once you are better informed of the meaning of the terminology, that you will come back and share your thoughts again.
Here’s a LINK TO GET THE BOOK
god is not real if he was he would have stopped my father he beat me he whipped me he raped me
Isabella:
I am so sorry for all that happened to you. Your father‘s actions were vile and inexcusable. And there is coming a day of judgment for him. As there is for all of us. Because we’ve all done wrong things. That’s why Jesus came to pay the price for our sin.
But please don’t be deceived. The evil things that were done to you do not prove or disprove the existence of God. I wish I could talk with you about this and answer your questions but since that’s not possible let me suggest a video that might at least give you some answers and encouragement. It explains why God doesn’t stop evil right this moment. But be assured, one day he will. I hope you watch the video and perhaps comment on it. I’d love to talk with you more about it. Here’s the link:
https://youtu.be/vaBPgtwZDs8
Spanking isn’t endorsed biblically. The rod mentioned was never used in that time to beat children and was in fact referring to a Shepherd’s Crook. You do not beat wayward sheep, but gently and carefully guide them back to the flock and away from danger.
I agree with your “no beating” – as you know if you took time to read (or even skim) the free book. As for your idea about guiding your kids with a stick – that is certainly an interesting view. Not sure it is “endorsed biblically.” But if carrying a staff around to guide your kids has produced godly kids then more power to you. 😉 The goal is producing the next gen of passionate followers of Jesus.
Good read! Thanks for sharing.
Thanks, Lori. As you can see there are others with different opinions which makes your comment all the more encouraging.
I agree with Molly that you completely misinterpreted her behavior, though I do not completely agree with Molly. I agree that in all likelihood she was trying to appease you. It may not have been so you would not hit her again. It may have been because your anger at her was more painful than the spanking.
In all likelihood you were a good and loving parent and she loves you because of this. However, this does not mean that what you did that day was helpful. You called it traumatic, and trauma is bad. Fortunately children aren’t usually destroyed by some incidents of problematic parenting, but we should avoid and minimize them.
Children do not experience spankings as loving. You did not have to spank your child to get her to apologize. All you needed to do was to send her to her room until she apologized. Hitting her until she submitted to your will was not helpful to her. This increases the risk for a child becoming involved in abusive relationships.
You gave no evidence of having done the most important thing that day, asking her why she did not want to apologize. Maybe she had a good reason. Maybe the relative did things you are not aware of that were inappropriate and hurtful. A huge percentage of children suffer abuse and the parents don’t even know it. Or, perhaps she was in a really bad mood and needed a few minutes to calm down. She could have learned wonderful lessons that day about thinking and talking about feelings and taking a few minutes to calm down. Instead she had an experience that if repeated enough would be tragic, i.e., that people will beat you into submission if you don’t give in and so you should not stand up for yourself. She learned disrespect for her own feelings. She learned to lie to avoid being hit even harder. All of this could have been avoided and replaced with good lessons if you had talked with her about why she did not want to apologize and given her time to calm down.
There are different degrees and ways of rebelling. If a child says he or she is going outside although you told them not to, or if a child curses at you, it would be very problematic to let them get away with it. The response does not have to be a spanking. Grounding is a fine punishment if reason fails. A child refusing to apologize to someone she is angry with is a very weak form of rebellion at most. It is not in the nature of children or adults to follow every command given. In the military it is necessary, but not in civilian life. As a child psychiatrist I would worry about a child that did everything they were told to do, right away. If all children learned to absolutely obey authority figures, we would still be a colony of England.
Spare the rod, spoil the child has been misinterpreted to mean corporal punishment. The word rod in the bible is not a device of corporal punishment. Psalm 23:4 “Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.” A person will not be comforted by the thought of being hit with a stick by God while walking through the valley of the shadow of death. The rod of Moses was used to do miracles and rescue the people, not to hit them.. “And thou shalt take this rod in thine hand, wherewith thou shalt do signs”. It was also used to guide them.
Whoever spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is diligent to discipline him. Moses rod was used to guide the people and help them with miracles, it was not used for corporal punishment. Telling a child that what he or she did is wrong and they should behave differently is providing guidance. I’m not saying that this is always enough and that punishment should not occur.
Finally, Proverbs was written by primarily, but not exclusively, by Solomon, not God. That someone got a proverb included in the book of Proverbs does not make it divine wisdom. There is a strange tendency to believe that if someone said something long ago it had to be right. Even Aristotle, one of the greatest geniuses of all time got some things wrong. For two thousand years people believed that objects fell at a rate proportional to their weight. He was wrong, as Galileo proved.
Hey Robert.
Sorry to be so slow in responding to your post but I would like to comment – I’ll try to keep it brief – on some of your thoughts (mostly because it might benefit other readers).
YOU SAID: I agree that in all likelihood she was trying to appease you. It may not have been so you would not hit her again. It may have been because your anger at her was more painful than the spanking.
RESPONSE: I find it interesting and quite revealing that people immediately believe someone is angry because they are spanking their child. In my book I point out that one time you should never spank your child is when you are angry. A spanking is not an act of anger. Once people get over that misconception they are miles along the road of understanding why it is God’s primarily endorsed method of discipline.
YOU SAID: Children do not experience spankings as loving. …. And “Hitting her until she submitted to your will was not helpful to her. This increases the risk for a child becoming involved in abusive relationships.
RESPONSE: These are two sweeping statements that you cannot substantiate (and I would say are false). 1. Children do not experience spankings as loving.
Just read the next comment in this series from a woman who was obviously spanked by parents who understood the Biblical method. I would agree that they don’t see it as something they like – which they shouldn’t – but we do many things for our kids that they don’t like (make them eat veggies, go to school, do homework, get out of bed In the morning). None of these are seen by children as loving actions but in reality they all are actions done out of love for the child. It is the lazy parent who lets them eat what they want, go to school only when they feel like it, sleep as late as they want and who does not love them enough to spank them when they have earned it.
2. This increases the risk for a child becoming involved in abusive relationships.
You say this as though there is a mountain of evidence to back it up when there really isn’t. Again, a spanking is not an act of anger or of violence. If you are talking about that sort of “spanking” we aren’t even discussing the same topic.
YOU SAID: You did not have to spank your child to get her to apologize. All you needed to do was to send her to her room until she apologized.
RESPONSE: So you would rather reject the child and shuffle them out of your presence. I would suggest that creates more trauma. It says, “Get out of my presence until you can meet my standards.” Pretty cruel in my book.
Finally, rather than deal with your rather lengthy comment item by item, let me jump to the main reason we aren’t even in the same book, let alone on the same page.
YOU SAY: Finally, Proverbs was written by primarily, but not exclusively, by Solomon, not God. That someone got a proverb included in the book of Proverbs does not make it divine wisdom. There is a strange tendency to believe that if someone said something long ago it had to be right. Even Aristotle, one of the greatest geniuses of all time got some things wrong. For two thousand years people believed that objects fell at a rate proportional to their weight. He was wrong, as Galileo proved.
RESPONSE: Apparently you feel qualified to pick and choose which passages in the Bible are from God and which are not. In which case, you become the final authority and source of all wisdom. I’m sure you aren’t intending it that way. No one would be that arrogant but let’s look at it logically.
If I read something in Scripture that I disagree with and I then assume it isn’t from God. If I agree with it then I assume it is from God. Hmmm. So, ultimately, I determine what is right, what is wrong. I give the thumbs up or thumbs down on the entire Bible. After all, none of it was actually written by God Himself. It was all written by men. So I choose which “men” I agree with and which ones I think are wrong. I make the book line up with my wisdom.
I don’t have that much confidence in my own little perspective. I’ve only been on this earth less than 100 years. I’ve only lived one life in one time in history. I’ve traveled a lot and experienced a lot of different cultures but visiting them does not make me qualified to say I understand them. My life experience is just too short to feel I can determine what ultimate truth is.
So, I have chosen to believe that God determined which passages would be included in his word and which ones would not and that he has gone to great lengths to preserve his word for me. I realize that may seem naïve – it may even be naïve. But it has worked pretty well for me. And I am much more confident doing it that way than for me to pick and choose which I believe and which I don’t. I just don’t make a very good god.
We are on different pages about this issue – and I suspect thousands of others – because I have chosen to not rely ultimately upon my narrow scope of experience to determine what ultimate truth is.
I’ll bet you don’t hold a single opinion that is wrong, do you?
OK, that was kind of a mean joke. Of course we all believe all of our opinions are true – or we would change them. But that is the point, As we grow and learn more our “ultimate truths” change. Otherwise we aren’t growing and learning. I am not confident enough to base my life on what my current “ultimate truths” are.
If living by your own set of eclectic standards – picking and choosing what your own set of truth is – if that is working well for you then that’s great. I just don’t have that much confidence in my own wisdom and I only have one life to live. I don’t want to experiment with it and find at the end that I chose a stupid path – which seemed wise in my own eyes. Especially since every man’s way is right in his own eyes.
So, I am choosing to follow the wisdom that has worked for 6,000 or more years.
If you’d like to continue the conversation please read the book I wrote – Spare the Rod – before you even respond so we are talking about the same thing. Otherwise it’s a total waste of time – like you talking about oranges and me talking about apples. Of course we won’t come to any understanding or make any helpful progress unless we are both talking about the same thing. And, you will have no idea of what I mean by spanking unless you read the short book.
Don’t want to buy a printed copy? No problem. I’m not in it for the money, I’ll send you a PDF just so you can see what Biblical spanking looks like. THEN, if you still think it better to send a kid off to his room – and deal with the rejection of that, we can talk.
I was spanked as a child and teen and actually looking back I have no bad memories of it. Yes I remember crying from the pain but also a feeling of renewal. I was spanked at home and at school (the cane). I’ve pondered this a lot. Why do some people live their adult lives looking back feeling contempt or feeling abused as a result of being spanked and yet I don’t. I felt that both my parents and my teachers loved me and were wanting to do the best for me. Other feelings were thouse of embarrassment for having done something wrong and anoyance in myself for doing it. Sometimes I can even recall thinking as I was about to do something that this is wrong and doing it anyway. I think also that at both home and school, once the cane was administered the issue was over. I always had a feeling of this is a new start.
Thanks for your comment Kristen.
Obviously you had parents and teachers who understood the Biblical method of spanking – not an act of anger or retribution. Rather a very self-controlled act of love used in rare situations of rebellion. So many have not experienced that type of loving discipline and so react based upon a misunderstanding, poor definition of “spanking”. Thanks for letting them know it can be a positive experience – as Scripture says.
My brother and i are two years apart and our parents hardly ever spanked us.When i was 13 and bro was 11,we both finially made our First Holy Communions.The morning of the ceremony,mom dressed me in my poofy,knee length communion dress and veil with the lace anklets and white shoes and bro was in his suit and tie and it was over two hours before the mass.Bro was playing a video game and i wanted to play also,but he refused and i got very angry and hauled off and punched him in the stomach and he keeled over crying.After everything got sorted out and he got calmed down,my parents took me to my room and dad sat on the edge of my bed,and took off his belt and doubled it over and ordered me to lay over his lap.Mom then brought my communion dress all the way up,then pulled down my plastic pants,unpinned my communion diaper,and dad gave me 5 very hard,painful,wacks with the belt on my bare bottom! After the spanking,mom repinned the diaper on me,pulled up the plastic pants,and we went to the parish.I cried most of the way there and walked down the aisle with a very sore butt!
You are most likely a resident of the United States of America or the United Kingdom of Britain. Many of those countries’ people seem to possess religious zeal akin to yours; one which, also similarly to yours, borders on idiotic.
This part of your story specifically makes me think so: “I had no choice but to follow the principles and leave the outcome to the Lord.”
Yes, you had a choice. A choice to not abuse your four year old child. How the actual f*ck were your only considered choices to a) beat your child, or b) do nothing at all? Is that what the Lord taught you – to be a father who uses God as an excuse or reason to apply unnecessarily harsh discipline? You should have referred to works of child psychology before attempting this, you should have consulted a specialist, made a conscious effort to understand if it would be the right thing to do. Why do you recite your proverbs? Are they to make you a better person, or to serve as an excuse for your blind abuse of authority? I do not believe in any God, but I believe that if He did exist, he would not need an incredibly stupid, biased book (Hello, Bible!) to convey His words, His spirit, His ideas to us.
Your daughter did not become traumatized, that’s good. But your reasoning concerning the reason for that is absolutely laughable; if a volcano eruption just so happens to pass without a single victim, does that mean a volcano eruption is safe? The human psyche is not a 1+1=2 equation. It is immensely complicated. Your child is fine, but a hundred others are not. Think of that for a moment.
It is truly a shame that the followers of something that is supposed to bring out the best in us, are some of the worst people around. I can only hope that one day religion is exterminated for good and clear, rational thinking prevails over blind fanaticism.
It is always wise to define your terms before you start discussing a topic. Obviously you have not read my book so you have no idea of what I mean by the term “spanking.” Let me suggest you do that first. Then we can discuss your problems. Hey, you don’t even have to buy it. Just sign up and you’ll get a free copy. Can you beat a deal like that? https://www.NoPerfectParents.com
I was spanked as a child and began dating a 19 year old at 14, he was abusive, I thought it came from a place of love — as you say. I moved onto alcoholic after alcoholic with personal space problems, and me — the try-hard with a physical pain fetish. I started asking for spankings around the time my parents stopped them. They hit the face instead, thinking their discipline would grow up with me — it is not appropriate to spank a teenage girl who’s vagina may be in any phase of cleaning itself, so the face was the next obvious answer. It didn’t start hard, with enough time it definitely became a nightmare but even that became a fetish of its own.
I hope your girl doesn’t try to re-make bad memories you created with someone else — a coping method many scared children do. Rape survivors may enact play-rape scenes to “overwrite,” the past, so do children of men who don’t know how to stop themselves, and instead say, “oh it was out of LOVE!” My parents said the same, but I knew it wasn’t, it was just easier than talking to me, and asking “why?” when my developing mind didn’t even know why.
Dear Anna:
I am so sorry for the pain you endured. What you describe is abuse – not appropriate spanking. If you have children it is crucial you understand the difference between appropriate corporal discipline and the type of abuse you endured. Please get a copy of my book (you can get a free copy at the website) Five Times You Should Not Spank Your Child. It will help you understand what is Biblical corporal punishment (spanking) and what is abusive, self-serving violence.
Again, I am so sorry for the abuse you endured but please know that there is a God who knows, cares and loves you. If I can do anything to help you find Him, please contact me again.
Rick Malm
I am actually disturbed by this story and the total power trip hardon it obviously still gives you. Here is the meta analysis of 50 years of scientific research which overwhelmingly demonstrates that spanking children is ineffective in improving behaviour and actually increases the likelihood of aggressive behaviour in later life, as well as the instance of abusive relationships. I am quite sure though that having written a book on this subject, you are already well aware what the science says and your above claim that spanking has no proven ill effects is purely disingenuous. What a narcissistic fork-tongued charlatan you are. Your daughter loved you because she had no choice, it’s what kids are programmed to do to survive, they can’t help it. You abused that vulnerabily in the sickest way for your own personal gratification, to impose your own will on her, and, worse, you still think all these years later that it was right to do it (even though your own emotions were signalling, strongly, that it was wrong). All this sanctimonious god talk doesn’t cover up that raging hardon you lousy child-hitting creep. Please don’t respond by plugging your fucking book.
https://www.vox.com/2016/4/27/11510118/spanking-children
Dear Claire:
I am so sorry.
Sorry you feel the need to use vulgarities to express your thoughts.
Sorry you aren’t open-minded enough to at least consider another point of view.
Sorry for whatever injustices you experienced that produced such pain and bitterness.
Sorry that you won’t even take the time to read a tiny little book that I am willing to give to you absolutely free.
I know this is going to sound patronizing but I mean it sincerely – I hope you are able to find a place of peace and healing from the pain that has produced such anger and unrest in your heart.
it’s ***** gross whichever ***** justification you give it.
“god wants me to hit my child”
***** you
Hi Kyle –
Let me make a simple request. I don’t know if you are a parent or not but, when your child is about 20 would you let me know how your plan worked out? If your child, or children, are all functioning well in society, successfully married, and get along well with you and with others, then you will have a platform to stand on to declare that you know what you are talking about. Unfortunately, until then you can only postulate untested theories. Of course, in reality, they are not untested. They have been proven again and again to be a poor way to raise children. Sadly, some people refuse to learn from others and insist upon making all the same mistakes for themselves. I would hope better for you, my friend.
It is obvious you were abused by someone who did not understand that God does not tell us “to hit my child.” Hitting and spanking are totally different. Please accept the gift I am offering, the short, easy-to-read book that explains what spanking is. Otherwise, we are talking about two different topics and you will understandably be upset as you evidently are. The book is FREE. It is short. It is an easy read. I think it could help you avoid some problems when/if you face the challenges of raising successful children. All the best to you.
‘A new study on spanking, considered the most complete analysis to date, finds the more children are spanked, the more likely they are to defy their parents, exhibit anti-social behaviours and experience mental health and cognitive problems.
“Spanking makes children’s behaviour worse,” lead author Elizabeth T. Gershoff told me. “It has the opposite effect than what parents want: It doesn’t make the children better behaved, and it doesn’t teach children right from wrong. It’s not related to immediate compliance, and it doesn’t make children behave better in the future.”‘
http://www.chicagotribune.com/lifestyles/stevens/ct-spanking-effects-study-balancing-0428-20160428-column.html
Obviously, since there is research to confirm it, the statements you make must be true. Furthermore, the experience of parents for centuries, the experience of children for centuries and the teaching of the Bible are obviously flawed. How could we have missed it so badly for so long?
For more research, on a different topic but of the same caliber, I suggest you check out The Flat Earth Society: FLAT EARTH SOCIETY OPPOSES SPANKING
They too have what they consider “the most complete analysis to date” of the science behind a flat earth. Actually, it is pretty convincing – more convincing in fact, than the research you quote above.
Really, you should check it out. It’ll be fun. Just be careful. Don’t get too close to the edge – you could fall off.
“I believed Biblically that children somehow knew discipline was a sign of love but here I was seeing it in action. Instead of running to her mom for comfort like she usually did, she ran back into the very arms that had just spanked her so hard. We embraced, now with tears running down both our cheeks. And I assured her of my love for her.”
Your naivete on your child’s wish to avoid suffering at your hand is jaw dropping.
Hi “Joe”:
Thanks for taking a moment to comment.
Your reasoning leaves me a little confused. If she wished to avoid suffering at my hand it seems she would not have run back to me but to her mother. But the good news is, we don’t have to guess. My daughter now has children older than she was when this incident happened. When I wrote this post I talked with her about it first to get her take on it and ask what was going through her head.
How interesting that one who was not there, does not know the situation or the people involved would be able to assess what happened better than I was – or even better than my daughter (the supposed victim.) But that’s one of the sad things about what’s happening today – everyone is an expert and no one wants to learn from those who might have a different perspective than themselves – even if that different philosophy has stood the test of time – as spanking has.
If you have successfully raised children who are an honor to you and the Lord then I commend you on it. But my concern is you either do not have children or are now in the child training stage of life. I say “concern” because you only get one chance at raising your children. You don’t want to blow it. Therefore, I suggest you follow the proven methods Scripture teaches versus experimenting with all the fleeting theories that are blowing in the wind. Your kids are too valuable to experiment with.
As a muslim boy my parents did not spank my brother or I because they do not believe violence teaches a lesson. They talked about it with me and how Allah (may He be exalted) would be disappointed. Beatings encourage your kid that the only way to solve issues is violence.
Hi Zane –
I hope you’ll get a copy of my book “5 Times You Should Not Spank Your Child.” You can get it here and the kindle version is nearly free –
Amazon won’t let me list it for free.
http://amzn.to/2BmUm5v
You’ll discover why I agree with you. But that a Biblical spanking is not an act of violence. Really, it’s not. Get the book and you’ll see what I mean.
Because i know you personally Rick i have to say I’m so sorry some people don’t know your heart and don’t where your coming from. It’s saddens me to read these comments but I can relate at some level a little. My own discipline as a child was less than ideal but because I have a realization of what makes parents behave they way they do and relationship with the Heavenly Father I could forgive my own parents. They were only working with what the knew. Then as a parent myself , we spanked our children and all three grew up a with a wonderful healthy love of us.
I am a huge fan of your writing.
Thanks Priscilla. I appreciate your positive input. I actually try to use the negative responses as an opportunity to encourage, grieve with folks over the bad experiences they’ve had, encourage forgiveness (the essential antidote to bitterness) and using it as a teaching moment. I’m not sure it helps the person writing – since they often have their mind made up and won’t be deterred by fact – but I hope it might help someone who is reading the comments. That’s why I often go to great lengths to respond.
Thanks again for reading and responding.
Blessings to you.
Hey. I’m with Molly on this one. She probably wasn’t hugging you out of love but fear. I was spanked with anything my parents could get their hands on and I grew up to be a self loathing self harmer. Of course I grew out of the self harm but it still haunts me to this very day. Were my parents abusive? Absolutely not. Was spanking not for me as a child? Absolutely. This influenced me when I was a little kid so much that when I was in kindergarten and a boy refused to share his blue crayon and pushed me on the playground for it, I clawed his arm up until he bled. When my parents asked me why (after a spanking obviously) I replied with something along the lines of “he wasn’t sharing and when people don’t do what you want, you hurt them”. This didn’t stop them but that can just show you how that behavior can affect her later on.
Spanking may work for other kids but it certainly did screw me up.
Hey Mal:
Thanks for your openness and input. A couple of comments: 1) The fact that your parents hit you with “anything they could get their hands on” is a huge violation of Scriptural principles for spanking. I can’t judge their motives or attitude at the time (any more than you can judge my daughter’s reason for hugging me.) But that usually indicates that they were reacting in anger – another huge violation of Scriptural principles for spanking. In my book – again, I am giving the book away so this is no self-serving promotion – I clearly express that one time we should NOT spank our children is when we are angry. Sounds counter-intuitive but it is Biblical. And the reason is, such uncontrolled behavior on a parent’s part will logically produce uncontrolled behavior on the child’s part – which you so beautifully illustrate. In fact, with your permission, I’d like to use your example in future teaching opportunities. What we sow we reap. Sow uncontrolled abusive behavior and we reap that in our children. But if we sow loving discipline, controlled consequences, then our children learn there are negative consequences for negative behavior – but the consequences will be commensurate with the offense. Which is a HUGE life lesson we all need to learn. If I run a stop sign I will get fined – but not the electric chair.
I appreciate the fact that you say your parents were not abusive – and again, I have to take your word for that because your earlier description sure sounds out of control and abusive – but one thing is clear, they did not follow the Biblical pattern. Never does the Bible instruct us to hit our children with whatever is at hand. And, this is not to fault your parents, who you obviously love. They just didn’t know better. And because so many parents didn’t know the Biblical way to discipline we now have a generation that thinks all corporal punishment is wrong.
If you are responsible for children, please read my book. Again, it’s a freebie. Just download and enjoy. I think you’ll see we are talking about two different things. When I say spanking it is not what you experienced.
One other suggestion: This one is not free but I think you (and many others who have experienced similar self-image assaults) would benefit from a book my son just released in conjunction with a world-renowned psychiatrist. You can check it out here:
Hey Rick,
Thank you for sharing. I have raised one child, and I also desire to stand on Godly principles to do so. I now have my precious grandson to help raise. Who is terrifically different than my daughter.
As a mom I had to day by day event by event decide is this rebellion? How do I act? I thought I had learn it and now raising the grandson would be easier. Ha! So your words are refreshing an for very much needed.
I was spanked by a mother that truely loved me enough to follow through with whatever discipline it took. I knew she loved me. Even at a very young age, and I recall it every day. (Well ok, most every day) 😀
Good job.
Thanks Meleah:
As you can see by other comments there are a lot of folks who haven’t understood the difference between abuse – a parent venting their own anger – and proper discipline (which may include spanking). It’s good to hear from someone who has experienced and also lived long enough to have a track record. So many of the “critics” are just beginning their child training journey so they are long on theory but short on experience. Time will prove how their theories work. The sad part is, if it doesn’t work out so well, they can’t just hit a button and reset their child and start all over. You usually just get one shot at doing it right. In your case, you are getting a second shot at it. Do it right again. 🙂
Wow
Some of those arguments
about being scientific can challenge ones understanding of Latin scientific terminology. When I was a kid , My Brother and three sisters were spanked bare handed or with a belt when We were bad. For being mean to other’s and it did not happen right away. My Mom might say “i might hurt my hand spanking You but wait till Your Father gets Home”. Now understand these spankings did inflict pain but nothing like the lashes well laid on like in Billy Budd or Captain Horatio Hornblower. My Dad let us know He was mad at us and would let us know that any future similar behavior “ We better Look Out”. A little Later He would come Talk to us and let us know that He did not like spanking us but He needed to make a point that would be well remembered of the consequences for bad behavior. then He would joke about how in trying to dodge the Belt We reminded him of a bunch of Comanches dancing around a fire. That got a laugh out of us and eased the tension. He said it was better to learn at a young age with a spanking than learn the hard way later in life by swinging at the end of a rope or the electric chair. Certainly there are those who make prideful claim to superior forms of disciplinary action that Have and are replacing the “senseless Biblical Punishment”. Just look at the world today and the well coifed soft spoken highly educated and “ Scientific” types who with gentle countenance that belies their Moral Turpitude have snaked their way into the highest most prestigious offices and institutions of this worlds Governments while bragging about how they beat, bullied and blackmailed anyone who dared to question their authority and defy them. Its that Sin of Pride like the Alien in The Day The Earth Stood Still coming to Earth with a impressive show of advanced technology and weaponry chiding backward Earthlings for their warlike ways while simultaneously declaring the Destruction of all Humanity should it continue its history of resisting aggression through war. That sounds as logical , orthodox , scientific and blasphemous as those proclaiming to be of peace who commit acts of Terrorism in exchange for earthly and carnal rewards that equate God and Heaven with the Set of a polygamist dating game and its host.
I think in every situation spanking is abuse talking is always the better option. I never was spanked but my parents did sent me to my room alot. I have autism so at that time I had alot of meltdowns my parents just sent me to my room because it was a place where I could calm down. Screaming spanking or even trying to help me would only make it worse so that’s the reason why they did that. It also has alot to do with the country I live in. Last week we had this list of the GGD it’s basicly this place that helps kids with their health and they come and check you every two years. One question was do you or did you ever get spanked. If you said yes they would probaly take you out of class to have an conversation with you. (Sorry if my English is really bad)
Hey Nina: I’m not sure what country you are from but your English is GREAT. First of all, if you have read more of my blogs you understand that, while I am totally in favor of spanking as a form of consequence for bad behavior, when done right it is an act of love and not anger, revenge or anything of that nature. In fact, the goal is to NOT have to spank. But if it is not an option on the table the parents is left pretty helpless. They can send the child to the room – like your parents did. That is OK at times – especially when the child is having a meltdown. At times like that a spanking just adds fuel to a flaming fire. The goal is to keep from getting to that point.
Your situation, because of the autism, falls into a whole different category – depending upon the severity of the autism.
The problem with routinely sending to the room is that 1) often it is not anything the child dreads. It’s like being sent to Disneyland for some kids with all sort of entertainment options in their room. 2) There is more an more research to confirm that this form of rejection can be more harmful than a loving spanking. What a child hears is “Get out of my presence until you are acceptable and acceptability can only be earned by good performance.” Wow. What a formula for creating a child dependent upon approval from others. 3) what do you do if the child tears up his room in anger? I heard one “expert” say he locked his kids in the room and often had to call in someone to fix holes in the wall and torn down shades and even a ceiling fan. He then explained why this was all acceptable. Hmmm. I hope this child’s future wife, boss and other friends are as lenient as dad when this little darling continues to behave the way his parents trained him to.
The point is, we are charged with training our children and preparing them for life. Life does not let you behave any way you want to and everything be rosey. If parents don’t help their children learn self-control the job will be passed on the teachers. If the child still does not learn it, the police become the ultimate enforcers of discipline for the rebellious child.
Thanks for commenting and for being kind and courteous even though you disagree. Apparently, your parents did a great job of teaching you civility and manners – unlike some who have commented on this post and feel obligated to spew their anger and hatred.
Spanking does not work and can be abusive to the extent that CPS may be involved.
Find a better way.
Dear Richard:
Thanks for sharing your opinion.
As for it being abusive, if it is, then it is not what I define as a spanking.
It is important that we define the terms we use if we are going to come to any common ground of understanding.
I give an extensive definition of corporal punishment from a Biblical perspective in the book, “Spare The Rod.”
In the popup on my website I have offered to give you a free copy so I hope you will take about 20 minutes – it’s pretty short – and read it.
Thanks again for sharing your opinion on the matter.
I was disciplined as a child with spanking, belt and cane at home and the cane at school. I much preferred the physical punishment because it was over quickly. I don’t think I was inherently a bad or nasty kid but I did do some naughty and some bad things. I think punishment was mostly a reminder that I had crossed the line. I do not recall punishment per se being a fear inducing don’t do it again. It was more a kind of reminder by the world that I had broken the rules for fitting into society.
I said earlier that I preferred physical punishment. I remember in grade 7 (12 years old) getting a detention for having a sling shot at school. I remember vividly spending the two hours sulking feeling angry. Just a whole lot of mental unhealthiness. Fasts forward to year 8 or 9 (I forget which) and I received a detention for something but this meant that I was unable to play football with my team so I went and saw the teacher who had given me the detention and asked if I could have the cane. I recall intensely explaining the importance of keeping ones commitments. Teachers were not allowed to cane and she said she would speak to the deputy head master. Later I was sent to him where I had to say it all again. I remember being super scared because he had a reputation for caning really hard. I was determined though and he did cane me and it hurt like hell. 4 cuts of the cane left 4 dark yellow black welts and bruises across my back side that took ages (two weeks or more as I recall) to heal and go away. I was careful not to let my parents know or see. Not out of fear. They would not have punished me again or anything. I was just embarrassed. But I did get to play football that Saturday.
I think in hindsight that the cane gave schools and parents more options. It feels like today, the kids get almost no punishment until they do something really bad and then police are brought in and it becomes a huge thing. I think kids need lots of very quick reminders to get back in line.
Other examples that could have ruined my life by getting me into the juvenile justice system but were dealt with using the cane included. Some break and enter at school on multiple occasions including into the tuck shop – stealing junk food. Into the library – just because we could and the clothing shop to steal fancy pens and stationary and into the chemistry labs to pinch stuff to make gun powder and touch powder. When I was caught I thought it was the end. I had no way to pay for what I had stolen. I was super fearful but it was 6 cuts and I was never asked to repay. On another occasion in grade 10 (15yo) I punched a opposition player in the face playing football. Amongst our team we had developed this competition between the guys to see who could play the dirtiest. This kid had the ball and was running toward me. It was my tackle. I could have easily tackled him but I didn’t. I just punched him full force in the face. I was sent off. These days consequences would have included a life ban. The kid had a broken noise and blood everywhere. I was shocked and guilty as hell. My guts were churning. I remember this because the headmaster sat me down and talked to me and I had to go an apologize. I genuinely felt guilty. I had just lost it and really did feel sorry. After I had apologized and remember I had not been forced to apologize or threatened. I came back and told the head master I had apologized to the kid and that I really was sorry. I just stood there feeling really awkward and the head asked me why I was still there. I said I haven’t been punished. He said I think you’ve learned your lesson. I said I broke this kids nose and he had to go to hospital. We had this discussion that he would feel it was unfair if I wasn’t punished even if I had learned my lesson. At one stage the head master said that I would be banned from playing the rest of the season. I had to work quickly and that was not a good outcome. I said the kid has suffered pain. I asked him to cane me as punishment and that I wanted to go back and play and show that I could play fairly and not be a part of this dirty play culture. The end result was I was caned and it was insanely painful. But I think it worked out well. The kid I think would have felt I had an appropriate punishment. I certainly went out to prove I could play fair. I think it actually helped me to mature because I was doings something to resist the peer group.
I think teachers knew that school was a safe place and they in general really cared for their students and the cane was a way better option than expulsion which seems to be the go to here.
There were lots of other times. I was caned a lot. Some serious stuff like the break and enter and some just annoying things like hiding other kids shoes that I took from the change rooms during gym or me and another boy sneaking into the girls change rooms when they were at gym and rearranging all their undies. The list is really long. In the end though I think I turned out good. I have a university degree. Never been arrested. Two speeding tickets is the worst thing. I have a wife and three kids a house and a dog and a cat. I coach soccer. But imagine if I had been handed to the police.
Thanks, Mike for sharing your story. You have a great perspective on the whole topic of corporal punishment and it is a perspective that comes from personal experience. I especially like a couple of points you made.
1. Oftentimes, detention or sending a child to his room just gives him a chance to sulk, feel mistreated and treated unfairly. Especially if they are not brought to a point of realizing what they did was wrong.
2. Corporal punishments (aka spanking) takes care of the situation quickly so forgiveness and restoration of the relationship can happen quickly rather than dragging out the punishment.
3. You realized the idea of CP was to keep you from getting in more serious trouble later. Helpless parents who only have rejection (aka isolation or sending a child to a room) as an option are helpless if that does not bother a child. I didn’t mind being sent to my room or put in a chair in a corner. I kind of liked the peace and quiet it offered – as do many introverts.
And, despite the “child abuse” you endured it does look like you turned out OK. Perhaps because you understood CP as an act of love – not retaliation, retribution or an expression of anger. Which they should not be.
Thanks again for sharing your very unique experiences.
My mother and my oldest sister were my disciplinarians growing. They each had cause more than once to give my bare bottom a good smacking, but the most they ever did was threaten to spank. No matter whether I’d stolen the change from my sisters’ coat pockets, been rude to my mother on the phone, told lies or been caught playing with matches, I was punished by the withdrawal of their affection. As a shy, sensitive boy who already had issues with self-esteem, I can’t help thinking I would’ve been better served by regretting whatever I’d done to earn a soundly spanked bottom.
I don’t believe spankings should be doled out like penny candy. But a child with an I’m-the-boss-of-me attitude soon realizes he’s nobody’s boss, having his bare bottom warmed across the lap of parental authority. By never getting the spankings I deserved, I simply wasn’t properly taught the critical lesson of Actions & Consequences. I’m not saying my tendency to impulsiveness could’ve been spanked out of me, but being subjected to traditional pants-down, over-the-knee correction for any of those instances of wrongdoing I mentioned would certainly have given me pause the next time naughtiness tempted me.
To her credit, my mother said in her later years that she would spank me if she had it to do over again. Both physically and emotionally, I don’t believe I could’ve been any better suited to good old-fashioned spankings.
We’ll said. And, a spanking should be a rare event. The very fact that the child knows it is an option and it is very unpleasant, is usually enough to make it rare to have to do it.
This is B.S. ….. spanking (and saying that it is God-endorsed) is a justification for doing YOUR will! The Bible also has some weird and crazy things… incest and murder to name a few.
Your daughter is appeasing you… that’s not a lesson. You broke her will, congratulations! Adults kill individuality, creativity and lack the understanding of human psychology to really connect and reach their children. All in the name of God. I’ve talked to Christian’s who have never and will never spank their kids. It’s not necessary.
Wow, Lisa! I’m sorry you are so angry. Obviously this touched a sensitive nerve. I can only hope you are able to find some peace.
At lesst she doesn’t resort to violence to get ger point across like you did with your defenseless child. Listen to what people (and science) are telling you. You don’t have the moral high ground here.
Thanks for your comment. It made me chuckle. Science? I appreciate your humor.
Wow – using religion as an excuse to inflict pain combined with the tired “This hurts me more than it hurts you” excuse. I agree with the reader who suggested that you actually talk to your daughter before punishing her. You took the OP’s side automatically. And no, you don’t need to strike your child to establish discipline.
Thanks for your opinion. It’s always interesting to hear what others think about a topic.
Yea, my father beat me too and said it was biblical. I put him in an old age home and ignored his calls when he said he was being abused. He died there and I didn’t go to his funeral. No one did.
Hey Jerry: So sorry to hear about your experience but I really appreciate you sharing it. There are a lot of things done in the name of God that He absolutely abhors. Beating children is one of those things. Sometimes it is done by well-meaning parents who just don’t know any better. Sometimes it is done by angry parents who lack self-control and ease their conscience by claiming God endorses it.
Statistics say that abused children are more likely to become abusive parents. Man, I, and God, want better for you. Can I ask you to do one thing that I think will help? Please get the free book I am offering. It will help you understand what Biblical spanking is (how your dad should have done it if it was ever necessary) and how you can break the cycle of abuse. It can start with you, my friend. You can change the future and not have your children, 40 years from now, saying the same thing about you that you say about your dad. I think the truths in the book will surprise you. And, it’s FREE! What do you have to lose? But it could make a huge difference in your future.
Hey Rick, I’ve read the majority of your comments and your replies to them. I can’t help but notice you have an answer to explain away everyone’s opinion of your actions as being worldly while you yourself have to be right because you are following the Word of God. And if the Bible is always right and you are the one who is truly rooted in the Word, you can’t be wrong. You can only be right! Because “let God be true and every man a liar.” Am I right?
Never mind, if I’m right or not, because at this point I can predict ENTIRELY what you’ll say in response. Plus, I bet I know the Bible better than you do. So I can do what you’re doing with every single one of your comments even better! 😉 You can’t argue with God! Silly people! Am I right? (Gasp! The arrogance! The pride!)
Sarcasm aside, I’d encourage you to humble yourself before our almighty creator and repent. It must be really uncomfortable for you to think that you might have been wrong in this situation. You even admitted it in your post that you worried you were being abusive for spanking your daughter a third time. Maybe that was the Holy Spirit in you trying to check your response to your daughter’s behavior and reevaluate your decisions. But who knows, I can’t speak for God; I’m aware that his thoughts are not our thoughts and his ways are above our ways. Thank goodness you think like He does, though! (Whoops, sarcasm again) Just ignore the fact that spankings or hitting for the sake of discipline can be found everywhere, even in some of the most pagan civilizations that have ever existed.
And yes, just gonna agree with everyone else’s opinions real quick, you probably did misinterpret your daughter’s behavior when she ran back to you. You probably embarrassed her by spanking her while your friend was around, just saying. (And you’ll probably say I misunderstood because you did remove her to spank her privately, but seriously, man! Kids are not dumb animals with the awareness level of a dog, sir. We know that they know that we know that they know that Mom or Dad just pulled us outside for a God-ordained butt whoopin.) Back to my point, you probably embarrassed her, you obviously hurt her, and she had a whole cocktail of stress hormones shaking her up. I doubt she hugged you because you’re hitting her made her feel the warmth of affection and love. Children don’t think like that. Their brains aren’t developed enough at that age to comprehend the complexity and nuances of that situation. I think you projected your adult way of thinking onto your innocent daughter who was at the age where things are as simple as black and white. She wasn’t capable of thinking through her spanking as sophisticatedly as you put it.
Should your daughter have apologized? Who knows. You provided little to no clue about what your daughter did to the friend. You hid that pretty well I assume (but I never know) to protect your daughter from embarrassment of having her misdeeds exposed. But I think it would be more embarrassing to have the internet know the details of my punishment and tears. You framed it though that what she did was just horrible, and we should all take your word for it. For all I know, it was an accident and she didn’t see the need to apologize, or maybe she had intentionally done something to your friend because (heaven forbid) she didn’t like them. At any rate, I hope you took the time to explain why what she did was apparently so hurtful and horrible to your friend that it was imperative she apologize. Spanking may have been your shortcut in that process, but please, set your child up for success by teaching them that when we hurt someone wrongfully, it’s good to seek forgiveness and reconciliation, and out of love for the other person (not because if they don’t apologize, they’ll get spanked).
At any rate, I hope you and your daughter have a good and healthy relationship now, however old she is. It’s how the situation impacted her that really matters. I’m curious if she even remembers this and how she’d retell it from her own eyes remembering being four years old getting spanked by her dad while company was over. Maybe she thinks it was the best thing for her and is sad to see so many people oppose you online for being open enough to share such a vulnerable peek into an unsavory moment of parenthood. Maybe it’s not really a big deal to her now and she’s moved on. Maybe it still bothers her that this experience is told from your own point of view with all your assumptions being woven in as fact. Who knows, Rick! Our Heavenly Father knows. When was the last time He swatted your butt good and hard to persuade you to repent? I’m actually curious.
Last time I checked the Word, it was the kindness of our gracious Lord that leads us to repentance. And I’m sure in your mind, spanking your daughter must have been the kindest thing you could have done for her at that time. Once again, who knows! As the apostle John said by the wisdom of the Spirit, if our conscience condemns us, God is greater than our conscience and He know everything. If it doesn’t condemn us, we have confidence before God. I don’t know how God has convicted you or not in this matter. Who knows the thoughts of a man’s heart, after all?
We’ve all rebelled against him. There’s none of us who are righteous, but he gives us grace and mercy. At this point, everything that could be argued for and against spanking has been said online to the point it’s a worn out topic. Each parent will raise their kids based on their own convictions and personal experiences. Those that take your advice and learn from you do so because they already believe spanking to be appropriate. I’ve seen the fruit of both parenting persuasions and usually what it boils down to is the relationship with their parents more than anything. Love covers a multitude of sins, as the Proverb goes. And perfect love casts out fear- not reinforces fear.
Were you spanked as a child? I’m just curious. Maybe you were and you miss those days so much you’d give nearly anything to have your butt whooped by mom or dad one more time so you can relieve some of the pressures of guilt for bad decision making as an adult. Maybe you were never spanked for one reason or another, and the only way to experience one is vicariously through your own children. The mind truly is a harrowing place. At any rate, it’s desperately obvious that you have it romanticized, which is problematic. Maybe you have pain cross wired with love in your brain, and the thought getting hit by someone who knows what’s best and does so for your own good makes you melt with amorous feelings. By all means, lay down on the psychiatrist’s chair and really reflect on why spanking seems like such a great thing to you.
Which carries me to yet another point. I don’t want to be inappropriate, but there are definitely parallels between spanking rituals and the sexual response cycle. That’s been talked to death on the internet too so I won’t bother. I’m not accusing you of anything perverse, but I would caution parents about taking care not to pervert their kids by wiring them to associate pain with a loving relationship. This DOES wire people for abusive relationships, regardless of whether the hitting was violent or loving (oh, the irony). Yes, I do think there’s a correlation as to why 50 Shades of Grey was so captivating to the women of the Bible Belt. Perhaps, the good Lord has been gracious enough toward you to protect you from the knowledge of these worldly matters, but there are many couples who affiliate spankings with bedroom stuff. There’s a reason for that, so please, I IMPLORE YOU, stop romanticizing punishment (though I’m sure you see it as discipline).
It can come off as weird and creepy. There’s a whole genre of erotica and porn that falls under the category “discipline”- you may know the difference, but there are those who would flag you as pedophilic for your post because they aren’t used to the language and thinking of conservative Christians. Don’t give occasion for the world to talk. It’s like the 12 year old who accidentally says something highly inappropriate because they don’t really know what it means to the majority of people. These are dark times, Rick. Be shrewd as a serpent, but innocent as a dove!
Anyway, it’s remarkable that this post is still generating comments in 2022. That tells me the topic is still raw and there are many people still nursing childhood injuries and “good intentions.” May God help us all and have mercy on our souls. And I really do hope you have a great and healthy relationship with your daughter.
Ciao,
KH
Hi KH
Thanks for taking the time (lots of it) 🙂 to reply. I can see you are really passionate about your answer and tried to be civil in responding. I appreciate that and I sense that you are probably even really sincerely trying to be helpful instead of just lashing out in response to your own hurt (as many other have.) I appreciate all your concerns with how the world will view the topic. It does remind me though about how the world viewed the lives of the early believers. They were persecuted by the Romans as atheists, incestuous and cannibals. After all, they referred to one another as brother and sister and then shared “love – agape – feasts” (the term they used in the first century for what we would call church pot-lucks). But to the carnal mind (much like today, the word love was equated with sex) so obviously brothers and sisters at love feasts was surely incest. And, worse than that, they ate the flesh and drank blood at the gatherings – eucharist. The point is, Christians have never been understood by their culture. And, in fact, didn’t Jesus warn us something was probably wrong if “all men speak well of you.”
As for your concern for my daughters well-being, thank you for your interest. She is a godly woman raising two wonderful and god-loving girls. Yes, she did spank when necessary but, if you have read any or my other posts on the topic you realize that spanking should be rare. If children know it is an option on the table that usually is enough to make it unnecessary. She (my daughter) and I have a wonderful relationship, as do me and my two boys (one of whom actually earned many more spankings than my daughter. All of my children are passionate servants of the Lord. I attribute that more to the grace of God than my outstanding parenting but I think it does at least bear some degree of testimony to the fact that spanking children does not insure they will turn “50 shades of gray” or be sexual deviants.
All that to say, thank you again for your input. Thank you for your concern and thank you for being civil in your comments.
Yeah, no. You suck at parenting. You’re basing your parenting on book written thousands of years ago that you didn’t see written, because you were brianwashed as a kid. You should have taken your friend to get ice cream, bringing the kid, and eating it in front of her—without caving even if she then cried and tried to apologize. Instead you taught her to fear you, and when she apologized, it wasn’t because of remorse, it was because she was sad she displeased YOU.
Thanks Mel for your comments. I think you are making some big assumptions (why my daughter apologized, that she learned to fear me, etc) about people you have never met – kind of like I make assumptions about the Bible writer though I never met them and didn’t see them write it. You might be interested to know that when I wrote this article I asked my daughter to review it. She barely remembered the incident and it certainly did not cause her to fear me.
Just for information sake, are you a parent? How old are your kids? How has not spanking (since I assume you don’t or didn’t) worked out for you? I notice most parents who refuse to even consider spanking their children, end up having to mercilessly berate and threaten them in sometimes a hopeless attempt to having any control over them. I don’t know, it seems a tongue lashing can leave very deep and lasting scars. Just a thought.
My now adult children were NEVER spanked!
If you can´t teach them to negotiate, don´t multiply; you are not suited to be a parent.
Violence is the easy way for lazy people, it surely works in the short term but at the cost of trust. They will NEVER trust you in the same way as before the abuse and the true communication is gone for ever.
And…you paddle children? That´s really sick, of course! Why did you produce babies? Due to a desire for unlimited power? This remarcabel lust for rules and punishment I can´t observe here in Europe and the use of hair brushes and paddels is just appauling! A sound thinking and loving parent don´t do such things but due to US traditions people are twisting their minds to think it´s ok to abuse one´s own offspring.
Are no one here aware of the fact that abused children test the parent in order to find if there is a person to trust any longer and as result the child is punished once again.
Look into your own heart (as Jesus said) and find out what´s right!
PS Why promise to spank in the first place?
In Genesis a father was supposed to stone his own son, Have you done that in order to be perfectly Biblical? Hope not, but why are you quoting the Bible, the OT?
As far as I´m concerned my friend Jesus died for little peoples small sins too. When will US Christians grow up? DS
Hi Sigurd, I think it’s unfair that you lump all US Christians into one category. After all, most of the venom I’m getting from folks who agree with you are from the US. So, there are lots of folks on this side of the pond who have similar misguided opinions. :-). A bit of US humor there.
By the way, I know the passage you are referring to in Genesis but it does not command a father to stone his son. And, not to be picky but it is also not in Genesis. It is in Deuteronomy. And, it is rather stunning so let me quote it here. It says:
If someone has a stubborn and rebellious son who does not obey his father and mother and will not listen to them when they discipline him, his father and mother shall take hold of him and bring him to the elders at the gate of his town. They shall say to the elders, “This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a glutton and a drunkard.” Then all the men of his town are to stone him to death. You must purge the evil from among you. All Israel will hear of it and be afraid.
Here is the fascinating thing. There is not one recorded instance of this ever happening. But, I propose the very fact that this option was on the table kept a son from becoming a stubborn, rebellious son. And think about it. The entire town would have to be in agreement that this is a rebellious, out of control young man dangerous to society. Could this be why the streets of ancient Israel were not ruled by violent gangs? Could it be the very threat of death would keep a son from becoming a murderer, a rapist, a violent threat to society? Just something to think about before we go criticizing the rules for a social order given us in the Bible. Maybe we need to take the log out of our own eye. IOW, if we have developed a better society of peace and justice where women and children (who are not rebellious and stubborn) can feel safe walking the streets then we can call the Bible’s standards outdated. But, if we haven’t tried it, maybe we should withhold our judgment. As one of your fellow countrymen said, (GK Chesterton) ““The Christian ideal has not been tried and found wanting. It has been found difficult; and left untried.”
Hi Rick,
I just want to say thank you for sharing this story and for all of the responses that you took time to write and share, so calmly, compassionately, and respectfully. I am encouraged and I applaud you for keeping the Spirit of peace, wisdom, and love in the face of so much anger, hostility, impatience and ignorance (some willful but some involuntary, I think). Thank you, thank you, thank you! You are such a good example to all who read this, and you are a good father and leader (although, of course, no one is ultimately “good” or “perfect” but our Father in heaven), I believe I can tell. Again, I am greatly encouraged by you, what you have written, and your loving and peaceful spirit. Thank you!
My parents are baby boomers and I am number 7 of 8 children between them (10 off 11 for my father). I was spanked as a child in a manner similar to what you are describing (which many are misunderstanding), in what I would say was as close to the biblical model as my parents could understand. They did a good job: they did not spank in anger, in haste, in excess, too often or too little, in my opinion. Well, maybe too little at times if anything! They also used many other forms of discipline. Just as you describe, it was used as an option, not as a go to; as a reinforcement, not as a rule/routine. I have NEVER felt abused by the spankings. And I do not consider myself having been “hit” or “beaten” by my parents in having been spanked – the way they did it. I agree with you, Rick, that spanking is not the same as hitting. A deed can be judged in different ways due to different motives, degree, and authority – for instance a police officer has the right and the duty to arrest and handcuff someone who is breaking the law in such a way that calls for it. It must be done without unnecessary force and by the book of course, or the authority can be abused, but he does have the authority, even the obligation to keep the peace and uphold the law, or however you want to say it. I believe parents have the sacred authority and obligation to discipline their children – this can and dare I say “should” include spanking, of course ONLY done the right way. Of course we are human and imperfect so we are going to fail and get it wrong sometimes, but we should strive to do the best we can, leaning and growing (as you stated earlier in these comments, Rick, if I remember correctly).
I remember being spanked and what resounds in my mind and memory today is guilt and embarrassment for what I had done wrong, and a resounding reminder of the fact that doing “right” is better than doing wrong, that there are consequences to doing wrong, and that my community and the ones who love me will not accept it when I do wrong. Also because my parents feared and loved God, they reminded me that God has called and required that I do what is good and what is right in order to succeed in life (and I don’t mean having riches, notoriety, or comforts – I mean a life well lived in the light of eternity and in the living eyes of my Father in heaven).
My parents are definitely not perfect, I am not a perfect parent, but I do know a God who is perfect and loves perfectly. I have received similar prejudice and judgment of my parenting and beliefs as it appears you have, Rick. You are right when you started that there is a new generation that was raised to believe that all spanking is wrong and abusive, that it always means “hitting” and “beating”, and that anyone who uses it is appalling and basically a monster. Very sad, and very untrue.
I will stop there, but I want to say that I am THRILLED and THANKFUL that you have written a book in further detail on this very important issue/topic. I have already ordered it and I await its arrival eagerly. Because society has made spanking such a taboo, there are not a lot of people willing to teach the right way to do it and I thank you for your boldness and love in doing what you do.
I can’t wait to read more of what you have written on this topic and others. Thanks again – I can’t say it enough! May the Lord continue to richly bless you and your family and the ministry you are undertaking in His name. – Caroline
Thank you Caroline. It is often a challenge to not be snarky or reflect the venom that many folks spew in their comments. But it helps to remember that “hurt people, hurt people.” The anger and pain they express is just a reflection of a hurting heart. I certainly don’t want to pour salt into their open wounds.
You obviously understand, probably because you experienced it growing up, that corporal punishment can be a loving expression not an act of violence. Thanks for taking the time to write and encourage me.